Santiago Passaglia: "We Argentines can't take it anymore, but Milei isn't going to do anything different and Kirchnerism wants to break everything"

Brothers Manuel and Santiago Passaglia and an atypical launch of a double presidential candidacy Brothers Manuel and Santiago Passaglia made an unusual decision for Argentine politics: they announced together that they want to compete for the Presidency of the Nation in 2027, but postponed the definition of which of the two will ultimately be the candidate. They called it, with a mix of humor and political ambition, a "bilanzamiento" (a balance-launch). The bet, they explained, is to build an alternative to Javier Milei and to Kirchnerism, whom they consider responsible for two failed models. In an interview with Infobae, the Buenos Aires province leaders explained the reasons for their launch, the economic proposals they have begun to develop, and the challenge of turning a municipal management experience into a nationwide project. They also spoke about the territorial building of their political space, their differences with the main political leaders, and the mechanism they will use to decide who will lead the presidential ticket. Manuel and Santiago Passaglia detailed their proposals ahead of the 2027 elections (photos by Gustavo Gavotti) Manuel, 39, governed San Nicolás, and his brother Santiago (41) —after the 2023 elections— is the one who currently leads the municipality. Both participated for years in the Juntos por el Cambio political experience, but now they seek to build a space of their own. They say they have been working on the initiative for more than a year and anticipated that in March they will begin presenting the teams that will accompany them. Their diagnosis of the country's situation is harsh. "The reality we see is that we Argentines can't take it anymore, and Milei clearly isn't going to do anything different," said Santiago. However, he warned that they are not willing to support a return of Kirchnerism either because, he argued, it would mean undoing the progress achieved through the effort of Argentines. Manuel agreed with that assessment and said they do not want to resign themselves to choosing between "two failed models." The differentiation from the President does not, however, imply a rejection of all his economic policies. The Passaglias defended fiscal balance, ruled out money printing as an instrument to finance spending, backed the continuity of the Incentive Regime for Large Investments (RIGI), and promised to respect State contracts. But they argued that economic policy must incorporate incentives for industry, commerce, and construction. Among their proposals, they mentioned eliminating taxes on incremental production, extending benefits to construction, and establishing mortgage loans linked to wage evolution. During the conversation, they also criticized Axel Kicillof, whom they accused of having worsened the problems of the province of Buenos Aires; they considered that Mauricio Macri failed on economic matters, and they maintained that the PRO, beyond the public differences among its leaders, already has a presidential candidate: Milei. In addition, they confirmed that they will not join either of the two major political spaces and that they will compete in the elections, without using their launch to negotiate positions. The Passaglia brothers were interviewed by Facundo Chaves at the Infobae studios —You staged an atypical announcement for Argentine politics: two brothers announcing together their presidential aspirations, but without defining who will be the candidate. Why did you make this decision, and why do it together? —Santiago Passaglia: I'm a mayor, Manuel was a mayor. We're both out on the street all day, among the people. We've been touring different cities, and the reality we see is very different from the one you see locked in an office, looking at statistics or charts. The reality we see is that we Argentines can't take it anymore, and Milei clearly isn't going to do anything different, he's not going to take any measure to change this reality. So we can't stay four more years waiting. But we also can't let the only way out be going back to Kirchnerism, which we already know what they'll do, because they'll break everything and the effort of Argentines will be lost. That's why we're going to stand in front of these two ideological models that have already failed, so that all the effort we Argentines have been making serves a purpose. —Manuel Passaglia: And why two? Because the more people get to know us, the more they choose us. It's the opposite of everyone else. And this is our best version, when we're together. In fact, we've been working together for many years. I was mayor first, and now it's Santiago. What I will say, to make it very clear, is that later on, when the electoral moment approaches and the electoral rules are clear, we'll sit down with the whole team and we'll define who will be the candidate for president, and that person will be the boss. —You have a long political trajectory in San Nicolás and in the province of Buenos Aires. But why make the leap from a mayor's office to the Presidency of the Nation? —MP: This space we're working on, and that we come to occupy to confront these failed models, should also be shared with governors, with major business leaders, and even with other mayors. But the governors are trying to put their provinces in order, the other mayors in the province of Buenos Aires are seeking re-election, rather than looking at what's happening in the country... —The re-re-election. —MP: The re-re-re-election. And the private sector is watching whether they'll come or not, what they'll gain and lose, and here we are confronting it because we don't want to resign ourselves. We see that this is going wrong, we tour around and everywhere they tell us the same thing. And it can't be that the only option is Kirchnerism, which every time it came back, came back worse... it has already failed four times. What more do we need to confront these two failed models, with which the majority of Argentines disagree — with both of them? —Santiago, you said that Milei's project has already failed. Why do you think it failed? Because the Government, and above all the President, maintains that it's the best government in history. —SP: They also said that the best eighteen months in history were starting in April. They didn't start. Then they said the two best years of Argentina were coming in 2030 or 2031. We're always two years away from being happy. But for us, the economy works when families who work and make an effort can make it to the end of the month. And that's not happening today. People work more and more, ten or twelve hours, or they have a job and then they arrive and have to get on an app and juggle things to make it to the end of the month. Something is being lost and broken that always allowed us to progress and advance as a society, which is that effort be worth it. Today you study, you prepare yourself, and you can't find work. You worked your whole life and, when you need to rest and want to retire, if you have to buy a hearing aid, you have to go ask your grandchildren or your children for their savings. Clearly this isn't working. And Milei already said he's not going to change anything, that's the most worrying part. Because if you make an effort and see that there's light at the end of the tunnel, you say: "This is worth it." But that's not happening, and it won't happen either, because he already told us he's not going to change anything. —What's the problem with the chainsaw that Milei used as a symbol of his economic policy? —SP: You know what the main accident is for people who use chainsaws? They end up cutting their own leg. And that's exactly what happened to us: we cut the leg off industry, construction, consumption, and the middle class. The middle class is the one paying the cost of the adjustment; we cut the leg off industry, which generates good wages so people can make it to the end of the month. This is no coincidence. It's the consequence of the decisions the President made out of his ideological whim, because we have options to do something else. The Passaglia brothers called both Milei's government and Kirchnerism "failures" —And what are those options? Because the Government says that fiscal balance cannot be modified, that money must not be printed, that the economy must be open, that investments must be promoted and the RIGI maintained. On the other hand, there's Kirchnerism, which proposes protecting industry and reviewing some aspects of the model. What is your position? —MP: The first thing you must not do is do Kirchnerism, come to break everything. Because what has been achieved so far is through the effort and sacrifice of Argentines: the stability, the fiscal balance, and everything that was done in Vaca Muerta — that must be protected, because it's well-paid Argentine work, it's production, and it's more dollars for Argentina. And what needs to be done? Add concrete measures for the three productive sectors that generate the most jobs in Argentina and that Milei abandoned and even insulted: industry, commerce, and construction. And do it without Kirchnerism. Because by printing money, anyone can do it. By devaluing, anyone can. Today half of Argentine industry is shut down. We have it built, with the machines installed, with the lights off, gathering cobwebs. Do you know how much that is? Sixty billion dollars invested. Do you know how much Milei announced, happy, in France for the Total investment? A RIGI of ten billion. And here we have sixty billion invested, with the capacity to generate seventy thousand well-paid jobs, and he insults them and doesn't listen to them. Why? Out of a one hundred percent ideological whim. We say that, just as conditions were created for Vaca Muerta, they must be given to these sectors. —The issue is how. Because we all want to be happy, but the question is how it's done. —MP: I'll tell you very clearly, and that's our difference with Kirchnerism and Milei: we have results to show and concrete proposals so there can be a way out in Argentina. The first thing to do, and the first measure we'll take, is zero taxes on industrial and SME reactivation: everything that Argentine companies produce above what they produced the previous year will have zero taxes. Even clearer: if an industry produced one hundred units of screws and this year produces one hundred and fifty, the first hundred pay taxes to maintain fiscal balance, and the other fifty go with zero taxes. We went further, because we're serious and we come from management. We went to a dairy company in Azul, an iron company for construction in the San Nicolás–Villa Constitución area, and an automotive company in the Zárate–Campana area. In all three we ran a simulation, and in all three they increase production, hire people, and can export to all of Mercosur and compete against any country in the world. I'll say more: do you know how much of the value of a car that's exported corresponds to taxes? Eleven percent. That's three times the company's profit. How much does a ton of construction iron cost you with our proposal of zero taxes on incremental production? Seven hundred forty dollars plus freight. And the Chinese ton of iron costs seven hundred twenty-nine dollars plus freight. And it's not the same: if you're going to build a building, it's not the same to use Argentine iron, whose whereabouts you know, as one that comes from China. There are solutions that can be implemented. You have to take the ideological veil off your head. —Santiago, for that to work there also has to be competition, clear rules, and an open economy. Industrialists and merchants warn about an avalanche of imports. Do you think the economy should be opened or certain sectors protected? —SP: Argentina doesn't need to protect inefficient companies. It needs to stop making inefficient the companies that are competitive. —What do you mean by that? —SP: There are many Argentine companies we know and have been visiting that, behind their doors, are competitive, are efficient. Now, when they go out and you load them with the weight of the State, taxes, logistics costs, and the lack of access to credit, they can't compete with the rest of the world. So what we need, as Manuel was saying, is to give them the conditions. There are many SMEs and industries that could be competing with imported products, even exporting, if we give them the conditions. Otherwise, obviously, they'll die, as is happening now. But the way out is clearly by competing with the world, without going backwards, as Kirchnerism did, which locked us in and kept us caged in the zoo. —We've talked about fiscal balance and also about the RIGI. Do you agree that the RIGI should be maintained without modifications? Because from Kirchnerism they propose auditing it. —MP: The RIGI is fine, we'll maintain it, and we'll also honor all the Government's contracts. No matter who the president is: the continuity of the State must be guaranteed. And we'll also create for Argentine industry, which is already installed here and has the greatest capacity to produce, the same conditions that were created for mining and oil. We'll also bring those conditions to construction. Just as we propose zero taxes for industrial reactivation, we propose a RIGI for construction, because today it costs more to build than what can later be sold, especially in the interior, where the reality is different from some sectors of the Federal Capital. And we also propose mortgage credit tied to wages so that people can take it and then be able to pay it. —How would that mortgage credit work? —MP: Today mortgage loans are given to you at UVA plus rate. That is, inflation plus rate. That makes it so people can't access them. And on top of that, it has to be for a first home, because supposedly they want to give it to the working class. People can't access it, and then they can't pay it either. If the Government also devalues or makes a bad economic decision, you wake up the next day and that family has lost half the house. So, we'll give mortgage credit tied to wages. Between the RIGI for construction and the credit tied to wages, we're talking about eighty thousand jobs. —The problem is how it's financed. Because if the credit is linked to wage evolution, but the interest rate responds to other variables, a gap can arise. How would you cover it? —MP: With us, wages will not be below inflation under any circumstance. So there won't be a gap there. Likewise, when you get the gears of construction, industry, and commerce working, the economy starts to reactivate and starts generating many more resources than any cost it may have. And the third is public works. There you can ask me how we'll maintain fiscal balance. Necessary public works — not what Kirchnerism did — is not a question of funds, but of priorities. We've already seen Milei say he had one hundred twenty-five billion set aside for the price of the dollar. They spent five hundred billion buying twenty-five warplanes. They used one hundred billion to make a transfer to the SIDE, and we don't know what the priority result is for Argentines. So there is money, there are funds. It's a question of decision. Milei himself said he didn't believe in public works. We say there are things that are necessary. The roads are destroyed. We're from San Nicolás. All the access routes to the cities from Rosario to Buenos Aires are destroyed. National Route 151, which is one of the routes through which most trucks enter Vaca Muerta, has stretches where you go faster on the shoulder than on the road. That has nothing to do with ideology. There's useful public works that must be done, and others that aren't. And we totally agree with that differentiation. —You governed San Nicolás, but Argentina has very different realities. Governing that city is not the same as governing a municipality in the Buenos Aires suburbs, with problems of security, sanitation, informal settlements, and enormous social difficulties. Are you aware of the leap involved in going from governing a municipality to aspiring to the Presidency of the Nation? —SP: Yes, we're very clear about it. We know very well the difference between transforming a city and transforming a country. We don't underestimate it. But we also say that the experience of having governed close to the people, of knowing in depth that square meter and what the needs and priorities of Argentines are, is extremely important for the challenges we face. We see it today with the disconnect between this president and the reality of all Argentines. —Disconnect? How do you see it? —SP: The other day, when we heard Milei say that it's an idiocy that Argentines can't make it to the end of the month, I thought it's a disconnect, in the best case. Because otherwise it would be that you don't care about anything, you don't give a damn about what's happening. —But do you agree that people can't make it to the end of the month? Because the President maintains that, if they couldn't make it to the end of the month, they would die of hunger and thirst. —SP: Of course. But it's nonsense to say that. Not making it to the end of the month is having to work thirteen or fourteen hours instead of eight. Not making it to the end of the month is not finding work. Not making it to the end of the month is what a family told me the other day: before, the outing, the trip, was going to the supermarket with their daughters. Now they can't take them because, if they pick up a yogurt, they can't buy it, they can't pay for it. We have many examples that we see every day. That's why our experience as mayors is so important. We're on the street all day, we take measures, and the next day we run into our neighbors, we look them in the eyes, and we have to be able to explain those decisions to them and understand the impact they have. We have the experience of building teams, of knowing how to work together, and of modernizing the public administration. Today in San Nicolás, one hundred percent of procedures can be done via WhatsApp. We also have the experience of having liberated a city from Kirchnerism. And the experience of putting the accounts in order. —What was that process of liberating San Nicolás from Kirchnerism like? —SP: When you have results to show, when you govern and truly transform your neighbors' lives, the problem of Kirchnerism is solved. If this government had results to show, we wouldn't be discussing Kirchnerism. It would be a page of the past and it would be twenty meters underground, as would happen in any normal country. Since they have no results to show, they play at propping up Kirchnerism. Because the only way people can vote for this government is out of fear that the other one will come, which is worse. Kirchnerism is still alive, but you go to San Nicolás today and Kirchnerism is not an alternative. It doesn't exist. All this experience we have in the city surely gives us much more authority to take on this challenge than having spent three years touring television programs, as Milei did, or having bankrupted a province, as Kicillof did. —That's the point I wanted to get to. You are Buenos Aires province leaders, and one of the possible presidential candidates of Peronism is Axel Kicillof, governor of the province of Buenos Aires. What do you think of him? —SP: He's allergic to management. —Who? —SP: Kicillof... In eight years as governor, he worsened all the problems that were under his charge, under his responsibility. The only space where a governor allergic to management, who worsened everything and solved no problem after eight years of governing, can be a candidate for president is in Kirchnerism. Anywhere in the private sector, if you run a supermarket, a company, or an SME and you bankrupt it, you're fired, you're kicked out. Here, the governor comes from bankrupting a province and wants to be rewarded with greater responsibility. —Kicillof argues that the national government has a critical stance toward the province of Buenos Aires and takes away resources from it. What do you answer? —SP: He also governed for four years with Alberto Fernández, who was of the same political color, and he didn't solve any problem either. They worsened them all. Security is the main pain of the families of the province of Buenos Aires... he gave cell phones to prisoners. Today we have in the Penitentiary Service of the province of Buenos Aires the largest crime call center in Argentina. There are more than fifty thousand lines. Before, at least, when criminals went to prison, they were disabled. Now from inside they scam you and drive people outside crazy. The province of Buenos Aires is worse than ever with Kicillof. He was with Alberto Fernández and he's with Milei, but the governor was the same. —You appear in a scenario of polarization between La Libertad Avanza and Peronism, whose candidate could be Kicillof, Sergio Massa, or some governor. What do you say to those who argue that your candidacy could be useful to one sector or the other? —SP: Look, there's nothing more useful to Kirchnerism than the failure of this government. You have to do things very badly for someone who caused as much damage and pain as Kirchnerism to have a chance of coming back. On the other hand, today the one who is most useful to Kirchnerism is the government itself when it props it up, because it's the only thing it has to show and it plays with that. And that has already gone wrong at other moments in this country. —MP: We don't believe in that polarization either. In fact, in 2023 they said exactly the same thing, that it was polarized between Kirchnerism and Juntos por el Cambio, and Milei ended up winning. We competed last year in the province of Buenos Aires, throughout the north of the province of Buenos Aires, and we broke that polarization that was talked about so much. And besides, we're not going to resign ourselves to having to choose between two failures, because they're two failed models. I have three children, I'm 39 years old. What am I going to resign myself to? To Argentina being the Argentina of Kirchnerism or the Argentina of Milei? No way. —Building a presidential candidacy implies territorial deployment, agreements, and candidates throughout the country. For now, you don't have governors, national deputies, or senators who are part of your space. How do you plan to build a presidential alternative from San Nicolás, with representation in the 24 districts and the 135 Buenos Aires municipalities? —SP: First of all, we're not outsiders. We've already governed and competed in several elections. Last year we competed in the north of the province of Buenos Aires with many candidates, we did very well, and we broke the polarization. That means we know what we're doing. We also understand that the new politics implies, first, making known what we represent and what our identity is, and not doing what has always been done: a pile-up of politicians who end up representing nothing. That's why today it's the two of us here, telling you what our project for the country is and what the measures we propose are. Then a stage will come to give this more political volume. That said, for more than a year we've been touring, working, and adding team members. —MP: What we can tell you with great certainty is who we won't be with: with all the failed politicians who made the decisions in recent years, because they're part of Argentina's failure. —Who, for example? —MP: Everyone who is governing now, those who were there before, and those who were there before them. Practically the same faces. The ones who keep changing are the presidents. The other day I saw Aníbal Fernández, who said he was minister for five different presidents. Toto Caputo, how many times was he minister? And many others like that. First, we're not going to govern with the same old failures, the ones who made the decisions. Second, we're not going to surround ourselves with yes-men, as Milei does, who surrounds himself with officials who are afraid to tell him what's happening. So then nobody can make decisions. And that shows in the priorities. And third, in March we're going to start presenting the team we've been working with. We've been preparing this candidacy for a year. —Have you been thinking about launching a presidential project for a year? —MP: Yes, obviously. In fact, we competed last year and we've been working. We're professionals in that sense. Besides, we're going to keep adding a lot of talented people. We launched the candidacy and we've already received messages from all over the country. We have a team, but we're going to keep listening and opening up, because we know the value Argentines have and their capabilities. There's no need to always go looking for the same old faces. —Will neither of you compete again for the mayor's office of San Nicolás? —SP: No. —Is that decision already made? Will there not be another Passaglia as candidate for mayor? —SP: Yes, it's made. The city project will have continuity, but not with us. —And will you have a candidate for governor of the province of Buenos Aires? —MP: Yes. And when we define who will be the candidate for president, he will define who will be the candidate for governor of the province of Buenos Aires. —But could it be one of you two? —MP: Whatever the president decides. —The boss. —MP: The boss, of course. —And how will you resolve which of the two will be the presidential candidate? Rock, paper, scissors? —SP: As long as we don't end up punching each other... —MP: I already told you: the PASO primaries will remain, Milei won't use them, Kirchnerism won't use them, and we'll end up using them. —But could that be a possibility? —SP: No, no. We'll sit down when the moment comes and the rules are clear, when and how the elections will be, how we're doing and how we both feel. We'll have a talk with the whole team. If there's one thing neither of us has, even though we're in politics, it's ego. Either of us would be happy if it's the other one. We won't have any problem. —MP: We're very clear about the roles. We already exercised them when I was mayor of San Nicolás: I made the decisions. Now that Santiago is mayor, he makes the decisions. —You had a political relationship with Mauricio Macri and were part of Juntos por el Cambio. That political project ended badly, losing power. What do you think was done wrong during the Macri government, and what parallels do you find with Milei's current experience? —SP: What was done well was starting to integrate Argentina into the world. That was right, it's necessary. A lot of good work was also done to give the country more institutionalism. That was sound. Now, in the most important thing, which is the economy, it failed. And the biggest symptom of that is that Kirchnerism came back. —Did Macri fail in economics? —SP: Yes. For Argentines, he failed. And the symptom of that is that Kirchnerism came back. —MP: And today we see that the PRO already has a candidate for president, and it's Milei. —But Macri said a few hours ago that the agreements with the Government didn't advance, that there's no negotiation underway. —MP: They have a negotiation table, they went to the elections together, they voted for all the laws together, and the majority of the cabinet ministers are from the PRO. Who is the candidate? Don't they know who the candidate is? Milei. We see it pretty clearly. —Still, for now the PRO hasn't formally made a public decision about its presidential candidate. —SP: We say it from the grassroots. From what can be seen, from our experience of talking with PRO voters and leaders who see that. —Patricia Bullrich was also part of Juntos por el Cambio and is now expressing some differences and criticisms of Milei himself. How do you analyze that positioning? Do you think what she's doing is valuable? —SP: You have to tell the President things as they are. You mustn't be a yes-man. That's good. —That's the second time you've mentioned yes-men. —SP: Because it's part of what makes you govern well or badly: being in contact with reality. Otherwise, how do you make decisions? What are your priorities? That's good, saying things. Now, she's part of Milei's government, of Milei's entire government. We don't see a differentiation beyond the fact that they might tell each other the truth. —You don't believe her? —SP: It's not that we don't believe her. She's part of the Government. It will be difficult for her to separate herself from the Government's fate months before an election. —I insist on the polarization. Who do you want to appeal to? The middle class, workers, those who can't find employment? There's an anti-Kirchnerist electorate identified with Milei and another linked to Peronism. How do you plan to break that division? —SP: First of all, we speak to all the Argentines who work all day, who make an effort and can't make it to the end of the month. We speak to the middle classes [Article truncated]